Memories

Areas like Palmers Green have changed a great deal over the years; the memories of others help us see where we live with new eyes. Can you imagine what it would be like to be caught in an air raid? For the streets to have virtually no cars? To be one of the first Irish or Greek families to settle in the area? For Palmers Green to have a department store, two cinemas and no betting shops or nail bars?

Have you and your family lived or worked in the Palmers Green area for donkeys  years? We would love to hear about your memories of the area, and how it has changed, over a cup of tea. In the meantime, here are some memories of Palmers Green from other sites.

Rosalie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/16/a2115316.shtml

Rosalie lived in Palmers Green during the war, and provided this memory of her wartime life as part of the BBC project the  WW2 People’s War, an online archive of wartime memories contributed by members of the public and gathered by the BBC. The archive can be found at bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar’.

Carol shares her memories of Grouts on the London RIP website

http://www.london-rip.com/places/grouts1

Memories of Palmers Green from the Francis Frith website

http://www.francisfrith.com/palmers-green/memories/

 

 

109 Responses to Memories

  1. I wonder if anyone out there can help with a memory? In the 50’s there was a shop towards the end of Palmers Green (on the right hand side as you went toward Winchmore Hill) that ground coffee. In the window there was a (seemingly) huge coffee grinding machine. Both my cousin and I remember the shop and the smell but not the name of it. Obviously at that time, there weren’t many shops selling fresh coffee let alone grinding it on the premises. Can anyone help?

    • Jane says:

      It wasn’t the Home & Colonial… that was a few shops further up, I will ask around about the name but ohhh!! the smell as you walked anywhere near it ….lovely….

      • John says:

        There were a couple of shops where fresh coffee was roasted and ground. One was called the UK tea company. The one on the right going North was Cullens …The coffee machine was dark red and black.Cullens also had another outlet nr the Cherry tree at the end of the Mall. Cullens sold loose biscuits from large tins and lots of different dried fruits and unpacked ingredients that could be bought in any quantities and were then bagged in paper bags.

    • Elizabeth says:

      It was probably the UK tea company

    • Jean Browning says:

      Think the shop with the coffe grinder and gorgeous smell was called Rawlins.went to school with the daughter of the owners. We went to Sothgate County Grammer School in Fox Lane.

  2. John Sutton says:

    It may be that your memory of PG is slightly off but, as I recall, it was the Home & Colonial grocer shop and it was on the left hand side as one went north towards Winchmore Hill; it was on that side shortly before Devonshire Road, the Fox Inn and Fox Lane, possibly about where the Red Cross shop has been in recent times. Otherwise it was as you describe with the coffee grinding machine in the window and the aroma pervading Green Lanes. By the way, the founder of the H&C chain of grocers made a lot of money and had built for him the last castle to be built in England; Castle Drago in Devon – now a National Trust Property.

  3. Hi John – It’s not my memory of PG that’s off, it’s my ability to tell right from left – I’m waving my left hand around saying I’m sure it was on this side!!! Thanks for the info. And another question – on the same side as the H&C but further towards Winchmore Hill – opposite a photographers, there was a Jaguar garage. Any idea of what it was called?

    • John Sutton says:

      Okay Pennie. No I cannot remember the name of the garage and can barely remember the garage let alone that it was selling Jags. Was the camera shop you are thinking off ‘Camera Craft’ just beyond the top of Osborne Road and some way short of Hedge Lane?

    • Tony Slater says:

      The garage was called “Saul and Slatters”

    • Kevin says:

      I think that this garage was called Saul & Slatters – a John Slatter who worked there, married my cousin Margaret Cantwell in 1962.

  4. Wendy says:

    Don’t start me on the shops – the wonderful Evans and Davies and the evocatic smell of Grouts!
    The whizzing of the overhead cash canisters as they zinged above to the cashier – fantastic system.

  5. I used tio get my school uniform in Evans & Davies…………. and had a Saturday job in Grouts!!!!
    I remember the Coffee place & it wasnt Home & Colonial….. that was a few doors up!!

  6. julia says:

    Grouts the haberdashers on the corner of Green Lanes and a small side road the name of which I can’t recall and then a little further down, near Fox Lane and on the other side a huge white post office. But it is the cramped interior, with drawers reaching up the the ceiling, full of mysterious items linked with the esoteric art of higher level dressmaking that won’t leave my memory, and the old ladies (probably not that old, but that’s how I recalled them aged less than 9, when we moved from PG).

  7. And the wonderful smell :-)
    Do you remember the Toy shop opposite too?

  8. Devonshire Road. Julia. Janes & Adams, Wendy. The coffee shop WAS on the right going towards Winchmore Hill, surely? The garage was, or became Kennings opposite Camera Craft.

  9. Wendy says:

    Cameracraft – now there’s a blast from the past too! What about the old corn merchant on the corner of Osborne Road and the tiny sweetshop nextdoor!

  10. Thanks so much for your reply I havent lived in Palmers Green since the late 60.s and loved living there….so many memories and so much fun again thanks

  11. Mike De-Bear says:

    Anyone remember The Quick Service Cafe on the corner of Bowes Rd and N Circular run by
    a great character called Brun Hill. Steak Chips and peas 2/6p and the included bread and butter,
    Ho for the old days

    • Dave Todd says:

      Mike, (have you still got the Roller!?) ….Yes I remember the cafe well, 1964, it was on the corner of N.C Rd & Green Lanes. Good lunch time food & very good value. The owner, Bruno & his wife lived opposite in Green Lanes 3rd floor above ‘Phiipe’s: Ladies Hairdressers’. After the ‘Quick Service Cafe’ Bruno in 1967 moved 100mts to the corner of Princes Ave/Green Lanes & opened a coffee bar called ‘The Bezazz Bar’….Juke box, two pin ball machines, served tea/coffee/& light snacks.Spent most of my teenage years using this coffee bar as a meeting place to ponder over a two hour cup of coffee to decide what our next move would be!!
      Bruno would leave the bar at 9.30pm each night, snooker cue in hand and walk to the ‘Cock Tavern’ for several beers & a few games of snooker.
      I would dearly like to know what Bruno did/go next, does anyone know please…also did anyone know a window cleaner same era, bit of a wide boy,one of two brothers, called Vic Madden, not to be confused with an actor of a similar name.
      Thanks
      Dave Todd

      • Yes, Dave, I knew Vic Madden by sight only, in the early 60s. Some boys from Winchmore worked for him on the window cleaning. He was a bit of a nifty jiver down Wood Green Jazz Club. I met him later as a tenant in one of his many properties and worked for him for a short while in the 90s. Last I heard he was still alive and well in his house in The Meadway, starving comfortably!

        • Dave Todd says:

          Thanks Richard for the update on Vic, knew him from his window cleaning business in P.Green, cup’s of tea in Dom’s cafe & long discussions on where to go for the next holiday in Spain. By the way do you have a brother Brian, married to Rosemarie?
          Thanks Dave.

      • Er, Dave, surely The Bezazz opened nearer 1957 than 1967 ‘frothy coffee’ and all that. I certainly went in there c1961.

  12. Wendy says:

    We lived in Osborne Road (1955 – ) but then moved to Old Park Road just over 10 years later where we stayed until the late 70’s. Wonderful area. Still beautiful.

  13. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    I remember the coffee shop in the 1960s as a child. The smell really made me sick. I also recall Roberts toy shop on the other side.

  14. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    There was a garage forecourt at the top of Hedge Lane where in intersects with Green Lanes, Was that a WW2 bomb site does anyone know?

    • Dave Todd says:

      Hi Jenny, slightly different location, a bomb did fall near the intersection of Green Lanes & Bowes Rd/N.C.Rd opposite Princes Ave. People were killed and the site was eventually leased by two brothers and used a a used car lot space called Keith Cars until the late 70’s.

    • Sylvia Gambin, nee Godfrey says:

      There was a car dealership at the top end of Hedge Lane on the site currently occupied by Yaser Halim. I seem to remember it being a Vauxhall dealer then a Volvo garage (?Triangle motors), in the 80’s & 90’s. Then for a short while it was a Menswear shop that sold high end suits, shoes etc. Hope this helps.

    • Sylvia Gambin (nee Godfrey) says:

      Hello Jenny,
      I do remember a Vauxhall dealer being at the top of Hedge Lane where Yaser Halim is now. I think it then became Volvo (Triangle Motors) followed by a high end men’s outfitters selling suits, shoes etc. I don’t remember it being a bomb site though

    • Sylvia Gambin says:

      Hi Jennie,
      I have spoken to a friend of mine who was born in the mid 30’s & has lived near Hedge Lane most of her life but she doesn’t remember a bomb dropping at the top of Hedge Lane. Like me, she does remember the car dealer being there though.
      Sylvia Gambin

  15. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    I grew up in New River Crescent during the 1960s. There was some credible evidence that the house on the corner of New River Crescent and Hedge Lane in the direction of Green Lanes was haunted. Apparitions were seen and there was some poltergeist activity mainly at night with loud bangs downstairs. Is it still haunted? Does anyone happen to know?

  16. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember John Menzies where I used to buy records in early 70s.

  17. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember the old people’s home burning down in 1966.Buses were diverted down Windsor Road. One old lady lost her life in the fire,

    • Dave says:

      Hi Jenny, I took a photo of these homes about this time (1966) before the fire for a school photo project on ‘old buildings’ I believe they were called “Skinners Alms Houses”.
      I will try & search the attic for the pic & copy & send it.

  18. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember the Windsor Café. There was and old git who served behind the sweet counter.

    • Mitchell Wells says:

      I lived in Windsor Road from 1965 to 1970 and I remember a sweet shop called The Windsor – we always called it the ‘red shop’ as the front was painted red. I remember the bloke who served there and was a grumpy old git – so I suspect this could be the same place. although i dont remember it having a cafe, maybe it did before my time though

  19. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember the barbers shop. The front half was a sweet shop and there was hair all over the floor, The old buzzard who cut the hair used to ask for a tip. He even used to ask children for a tip!

    • Joni Loizoi says:

      Which barbers do you mean? Do you remember one opposite Arnos Grove tube in early 80’s?

      • Jenny Hirshberg says:

        No this barbers was near Janes and Adams – Electrical shop and also bicycle shop. An elderly man worked there and a younger surely man.

        • John says:

          Was this the Barbers that was in a room behind Glossop’s the sweet and tobacco shop. Glossops was near J&A. Mr and Mrs Glossop were a very jolly couple always ready to share a yarn. When you entered the shop there was another door immediately opposite the entrance door. It had engraved glass in it and behind this door there was a barbers shop with two chaps who cut mens hair. There was nearly always a queue to have your hair cut and my Mum would go shopping while I and my brothers sat and waited next to the coat stand. When we were small the barber put a piece of wood across the arms of the chair for us to sit on or we could not be seen in the mirror!
          I recall watching with amazement whilst waiting as the barber lit a candle and singed older mens hair, hoping desperately he would not set light to m,e when my turn came!

  20. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember the minicab office at the top of Hedge Lane in the 1970s. There was a big fat man with tattoos who ran it and used the F word all the time. ‘I’ll call you a F……cab’ etc. He really lowered the tone of Palmers Green,

  21. Wendy says:

    oh that did make me laugh :-) – yes remember him.
    Going back a bit…… who used to run up Fox Lane, stand on the bridge and wait to be covered in steam from the trains :-)

  22. David says:

    Hi Mike, yes I remember Bruno walking from the cafe with snooker cue in hand after a days work to the Cock pub to try & win a few bob in the billiard room, he also had the ‘Bezazz Coffee Bar’ corner of Princes Ave, with juke box & pin ball machines great times all for the price of a coke or coffee with your mates. Michael do you remember Mr Forkin at St. Michaels school Tottenhall Rd.arranging a boxing ring with proper gloves in the playground afternoon break with you & Everett Houghton as contenders?

    • Mike De-Bear says:

      Well the years are rolling back! Everett was the first black lad in our school in the mid 50s. What a great guy he was. Spent a few happy days with him and also his parents at their house up by the new river. Wonder what happened to him, I would love to know.
      Bruno was my neighbour in the flats above the shops on the N Circular Rd and round the corner to Bows road He moved from the Quick service cafe to the Bezazz and as you say it was the hub for many. Again has anyone any info on Bruno? would love to know..

  23. I practically lived in the Bezzaz Coffee Bar!!!! would go down there most nights and you need only buy one coffee & that had to last you all evening …what great times in there !!!!

  24. Reg Hart says:

    I have so many memories of Palmers Green in the late 1940s [through to the present day] that I could be here all night, tomorrow and for the next month typing them up. Some are specific – others generic.

    Has any reader furniture in use purchased from Allen & Appleyards at 362 Green Lanes, replacing ‘Kiltycakes Cafe’ next to the still existing post office?

    Reg

  25. Raymond Spencer Rann says:

    Dear (if I may say so having lived in The Larches since 1937) Reg. Seekin relatives of a gentleman printer named Richard Wall who lived at No.8 The Promenade N13 ‘opin to return some property I found, I come across this Jewel and your writins…are you related to Joe Hart for whose band my Dad used to play the saxophone…usually Friday evenins for 32/6? Dad did buy furniture at A an A’s…and all else for Elsie (my Mum) without consulting ‘er. She ‘ated the chairs and the ‘oover and most else ‘e lovingly carried ‘ome. I farms in Cornwall now an’ apologise for the grammer neglected at Southgate County Grammar (an spellins). As Mr. Auger sed “want to be a farmer eh-eh-young-un? don’t make us laugh it’s football or economics ‘ere. Ray.

  26. Reg Hart says:

    Hi Raymond
    Very interesting. My father, Bert Hart, worked for Allen & Appleyard making furniture.
    To ‘supplement income’ he was a musician from 1926. He played an accordion and the drums for many of the big orchestras and hotels in central London. After the war he ran various bands – “Bert Hart’s band – any combination”. A saxophonist my father often booked had the first name of ‘Larry’.
    I knew of Joe performing at the Municipal Hall, Tottenham – but he is not in our family tree.

    • Raymond Spencer Rann says:

      Hi Reg. Thanks for your rememberins. Yore Dad probably employed my Dad (as a freelance) their musical doins seems to ‘ave run parallels. Dad livin then in Islinton/’ighbury played piano, accordian, dubblebase, all sizes of saxophones and clarinet as reserve needed in the West End ‘otels in Lunnon includin the Savoy ‘otel (10/6d an evenin’)(after the War e’ was to reminisce when taken to lunch in Savoy Grill by conglommerats an councils gaspin to get ‘old of Shell’s munny) as assistant investment manager (16th Floor) for Shell Oil (millions to spend) and for No.1 Balloon Barrage Dance Band (later the Squadronnaires ‘an Skyrockitts) that is when e’ wasn,t tendin ‘is personal barrage balloon in East ‘am 1939. Annyway after ‘ostilities ‘e also gigged (very fashionable nowadays, eh?) for Joe Hart at Tottenham Muni and Manor ‘ouse Finsbury P, Dick Davis an Billy Cotton etc. Our Joe Hart lived in ‘edge Lane opposite Doc. Seiferts (e’ the owner of the Studebaker Car and Parker Pen (2/6d for cesstificats after the War) practice. Doc. Seifert refused to save my ‘an my Dads life in the 40’S…annyway no ‘ard feelins ‘e saved my life later..,as for Tottenhall Road…more our ‘memories ‘istories. later..no rush…sheep on the boil. Footnote: Dad an’ is fellow freelances performed under aliasis to avoid problems with HMCRC….why else am I cultivatin a full Santa Claus beard…5 months to go! .

  27. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember Martins the newsagents- corner of Green Lanes and Hedge Lane. A man who was the spitting image of Reginald Varney (On the Buses fame} served behind the counter. I used to by comics from him in the 60s. He suspected everyone under the age of 18 of being a shoplifter.

    • Suzanne Beard says:

      I have edited this comment because what it says was of a personal nature and could cause offence. Play nicely please.

  28. Mitchell Wells says:

    I lived in Palmers Green from 1965 to 1993 and I have many memories of the shops back in the 60s and 70s, I even had a saturday job in Gambles the corn merchant, in 1977. Some of the shops that havent been mentioned – from my memory, are; The mens raincoat shop at the top of Windsor Road and the little old man who stood at the door – he was creepy!. A few doors away was a grocers shop called Crows’. Further down , a few doors from the Fox was a confectioner called J.Vercoe. Between Windsor Road and Park Avenue was a greengrocers called Burkes, there were 2 Janes and Adams shops, the toy shop already mentioned, plus 2 doors from that there was the electrical shop – an old sign saying Ultra Radio was still up on the front at the first floor (last time I looked). The chemist at the top of Hazelwood Lane was called Cross & Herbert. On the other side of the road there was a record shop called Opus – I used to spend a lot of time in there in the 70s, you could also buy records from John Menzies a few doors down. On the corner of Aldermans Hill and Devonshire Gdns was the United Dairies shop. I could go on and on really…but one last one for now – the Box o’ Chicken next to Martins the newsagent…and I remember that bloke in Martins, you’re right he did look like Reg Varney!! Thats where I bought my comics too…Beano, Whizzer & Chips and Sparkey.

    • Christine Collins says:

      I remember the mac shop. It was called something like ‘The Rubber Mac shop’!!!! It catered for men and women. It was quite good really if you wanted a weatherproof coat and were prepared to go in! The old boy used to stand outside and entice you in with phrases like”….this one would suit you…”etc. Once in, the shop was very narrow and long with coats of all sorts hanging along the walls.
      I used to buy my records from Ashwells which was next door to Lloyds Bank. The other side of the Bank was a school outfitters where I was bought school uniforms, blazers and badges etc. Further up from Ashwells towards Devonshire Rd.was a beautiful shop selling china and glass.This was close to the shop with the heavy coffee smell…a quite small shop which was probably next door to the 2nd. CameraCraft shop. There was also Kate Riddle, a hat shop with a ‘tasteful’ window display. Then along from there was a sports shop where I bought my school tennis racquet. Then, of course, the great Grouts with its ‘artistic’ window displays! Socks, vests, liberty bodices(!) & knickers etc. And gloves which were cleverly (!) hang across the window pegged on string!!! No expense spared by Mr.Grout!! Although we joke about the shop you could actually buy just about anything you required in the haberdashery line, ric-rac braid, elastic, cotton, ‘american cloth’ by the yard etc.
      Inside, the shop was very long with a back section which you rarely ventured into, mainly sheets and towels and net curtaining, Down the middle of the shop, arranged on chairs were tatty cardboard boxes holding items like socks, childs vests etc…special offers, I guess!
      I remember going there with my Grandmother in the 40’s/50’s. She bought all her underwear from there. She would sit regally on the little wooden chairs by the counter. These chairs had the smallest seats I’ve ever seen and I often thought it was a miracle that my Gran ever managed to perch on one. As she asked for ‘opera top’ petticoats and long legged knickers the woman behind the counter would operate the very cleaver drawers lining the walls holding the goods. These drawers had glass fronts so you could see the contents. They could be dropped down to serve the goods. Once purchased the items would be carefully wrapped in brown paper and tied with string before the exciting moment (for me anyway) of paying. The money offered was ‘flushed’ along and up to the cashier in the small glass fronted cash office, high up. What a job to have, stuck up there in this rather dark shop every day!! Your change would come whizzing back in the rather splendid looking canisters.
      There was a second Grouts shop at 470 Green Lanes just before Hedge Lane. This was run by a short tubby lady. This was a more calm shop selling much the same things as the other one. The walls were lined with painted tongued and grooved wood. The shop later became an extension to Gateway Film Productions (where I worked). The wood walls remained!

      • Raymond Spencer Rann says:

        Hi Christine. I don’t remember the Rubber Mac Shop…Ma made me buy my Mac (Grey Gabberdine, de reguer worn over the right arm when h’escortin’ the ladies (no rain at the wrong time in them pre global warmin days) but de reguer in Broomfield or Grovelands Park to spread for the ladies (Sir Walter Raaly like etc)) from Fifty Shillin’ Tailors? (opposite Courts Furnitures?) Annyway she, (my Ma) also directed me to buy my first suit from them (powder blue with just a touch o’ pink pin stripes) for my first day to work in 1950. After my first day in Old ‘olborn never wore the suit agin at work or come to think o’ it, any suit (retired 1988). But the mac an the suit attracted my beloved Patricia nee Cable (Winchmore ‘ill) (not me, you unnerstand). My taste dress-wise (MENS) was Bricks across the road, specially them T-shirts. Annyway back to Patricia (and her Ma), they worshipped Grouts and in my stores upstairs I ‘ave loads o’Grouts stuff and the 60’s ‘lectric Singer sewing machine kept ready ‘an oiled like for my grandaughter (6) and ‘er new baby sister comin October. . .

      • Sylvia Gambin nee Godfrey says:

        Hello Christine, I do remember the china and glass shop which I went in with my Mother to buy any special gifts for people. It was called Lawleys I believe. Also the sports shop was further up on the parade of shops opposite the old Woolworths. It was called Briggs and there was another branch down at Wood Green. I still have a tennis racquet in the loft that I bought from P Green branch when I was about 13/14! Many years ago.

  29. Raymond Spencer Rann says:

    Hi Mitchell… thank you for fillinin some pot’oles,,
    yore memories are late stuff to me for my writins as I sink into the west…I remembers Janes ‘an Adams afore the ‘lectric shop hexpansion….in my days the winders were boarded up..just a sq.ft peep’ole like all shops (Ma ‘an I ‘urried past on our Fridy night out to Palmadium Pictures (Ma wouidn’t go to the Queens, “bit seedy” she sed)(no one looked in them dark doorways then ‘cos o’ things goin on! (with Pa as escort we did go to the Queens later on seein’ Cat ‘an the Canary (Bob Hope, ‘avent bin able to sleep in a bed with ‘edboard since and Pinnochio…nightmares ‘cos o’ the Whale swallerin (Jonah?) ..annyway the day come in ’46 for the first consignment of Dinky Toys on sale at J&A…I got there late in the queue and only the h’Emplacement Coastal Gun was left…bought it but should .ave kept it…in it’s box what price now? Annyone remember that great Destroyer model opposite the counter in J&A’s, is it still cutttin’ the seas in defence of our Realm?

  30. In the late 60’s, early 70’s a small ladies shop appeared near Burtons. We were entranced by the trendy clothes and selection of jazzy tights. Wonderful. Aldermans Hill had some fascinating shops too….the tiny pet shop opposite the station, the flower man – then on to an electrical shop where I bought my first portable telly for my room with my first wages! Further up another pet shop Hoopers? A hardware emporium and a very old fashioned (even then) gift/tobacco /sweet shop toward the end of the parade. Was it a post office too?
    Wendy (was Wendy Small )

    • Sylvia Gambin (nee Godfrey) says:

      Hello Wendy, I do recall the ladies shop you mean. I think it was called Harvey Sports (a friend of mine had a Saturday job there) & next door was a fabric shop called Metres which sold everything from net curtains to dress fabrics and upholstery materials, The couple who ran it were very kind & patient working our how much material you needed for your windows etc. Also in Alderman’s Hill was a butcher called Drakes and the Gas Company with the Electricity Co round near the current McDonalds in Lodge Drive. In Green Lanes itself there were 2 jewellers too. One called Bourlet (nr Smokers Paradise) & Hinds which was almost opposite I think.
      Sylvia

  31. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember Roberts toy shop near the corner of Hazelwood Lane? Also Victor Value supermarket. The shop later became Tesco. Before Victor Value there was a lovely old music hall. Also there was an old style Sainsburys – Bricks mens shop, No Job Centres in those days. We called them Labour Exchanges and people were made to queue outside. In those days they called a spade a spade!

  32. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Also the first Wimpy Bar at the triangle in the mid 60s?

  33. Yes, remember it as Roberts. Many toys purchased there! Going back toward Hedge Lane… on the North side…remember a chap who used to make basket work/wicker goods/walking sticks? It’s a hazy memory but I do remember buying a basket for my school books (they were the ‘in’ thing then) It was a glorious place to live as a child. Lovely shops, great parks – such a pretty place.

    • Raymond Spencer Rann says:

      Hazy memory? I also, an’ geography class at Southgate County Fox Lane… “Please Miss! (Miss Watts?) watts north Miss?” “Sit down Raymond! we’ve already ‘ad enough laughs for the day over your conviction that The Sahara Desert is in the middle of Australia.)(i am yet to be convinced I wos wrong). Annyway….back to… on the North side …an’ them baskets…I remembers a cafe at this location. Ma used to send me there up Hedge Lane in the school ‘olidays with a shillin for my lunch (includin tip)…I remembers the custard. Other fine dinin’ h’experiences in dear ‘ol Palmers Green…geograffical-wise goin east. Cafe between Gamble’s an J ‘an Adams (Ma says ” not goin in there Raymond, too cheep “) on our way back from The Palmadium. Next, The Curzon just past the Post Office (not goin in there Raymond, too h’expensive). Next..The Triangle Cafe shut (ABC an Lyons) also shut at 5.. So back ‘ome goin West? no munny for the trollybus… past Evans ‘an Davies… Pritchards Restaurant (Ma’s favourite ‘cept for Shell Oils’ Social Club at Teddington) Same waitress uniforms, black, with frilly white ‘eddressis an’ aprons…so the long walk ‘ome to The Larches ‘an cheese sanwiches. However, “you might ‘ave missed” as Waitrose now sez ‘ere in Cornywall….Hazelwood Lane ‘an the Pilgrims Rest (maitre’d, a Swiss gentleman…later to command The Cherry Tree on Southgate Green) tho’ never done it better than Pilgrims in my an’ my Patricia’s opinion…Other Cafes in Lunnon Town.. Savoy, Carlton Towers, The White House, Tante Clair etc..’an them Cafes in Bray, Berks, don’t make it in my list but that MacDonalds (you know, the one just across the road from Valencia (Espagne?) Train Station (not the new International Train H’estacion) (‘tho the coffee an croissants is worth a go ‘ere (ambience etc)) So…it’s between Palmers Green Pilgrims (overalls, ambience) etc., Valencia, McDonalds (frys) and Sgt Craven (Army Caterin Corps) attached Rifle Brigade (Winchester)…Savoury Mince…………now for Lamb Chops a la Remoska at Colebrook Cornywall.

  34. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Remember Dr Meldrum’s surgery opposite Janes and Adams, and his receptionist?

    • Reg Hart says:

      Doc Meldrum had a most interesting signature …it resembled WWWWWWWW
      If my memory is correct that represented ………….W.W. Meldrum

      • John Bye says:

        Reg I remember you from St Michaels at Bowes, I recall you had a interest in meteorology, and went on to Arnos School ans I went to Winchmore Hill Secondary. My name is John Bye, I don’t know if you remember me.

  35. Ha ha yes and he had those bottle top glasses Dr Meldrum !!!

  36. Ooooh now you’ve switched a bright light on….The Pilgrims Rest – what a gem

  37. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    Also Broody and Hicks who sold cameras in the 1970s. Opposite Grouts – well almost.

    • gerry hicks says:

      Brody & HICKS camera shop was started by me Gerry Hicks Im now retitred living in Cockfosters.

      • David says:

        Hi Gerry, I’m nearly retired and living in Australia, you may remember my father Aubrey Todd who ran Kelvin Photos. Would love to hear your memories of the 50’s & 60’s. Regards David.

  38. Martin says:

    When were all the doctors, dentists, solicitors along Green Lanes private residences?

  39. Victoria says:

    remember the milkman coming round with his horse?

    • Jenny Hirshberg says:

      Yes the coal man also had a horse and cart to make deliveries. This was back in the early 60s.

      • Victoria says:

        I don’t recall the cart. I just recall the horse. I assumed that the horse was some kind of pet that he took with him on his deliveries.

        • Jenny Hirshberg says:

          also the Unigate milkman who had an electric cart and kept saying ‘oh brother’. Also Jack the window cleaner who lost a leg at the Somme.

        • Roger Hannaford says:

          I lived in Conway Road all of my early life from 1944 to 1968 when I emigrated to Canada. Remember the Rag and Bone man had a horse and cart and my mum would send me out with a shovel and bucket to scoop up any droppings the horse might leave. We always had nice Rose bushes !
          Lots of happy memories of Palmers Green – ice cream at John Coombs sweet shop. Getting up early after a windy night to get conkers in Broomfield park. Coronation fireworks display in the park. Veluchi’s barber shop near the Triangle- only one and three pence for a mod style hair cut. Getting my school blazer and cap at Isaac Walton’s.
          Happy times at Arnos school and some not so nice if you got the cane. Remember Reg Hart who has posted here- he was interested in meteorology back then.
          Good to have found this site.

  40. Happy times :-) Hazelwood Primary School, Hazelwood Lane youth club, the ‘Rec’ on sunny days.

  41. Victoria says:

    yes recall them well. I was at Hazelwood school in the 1960s. The headmistress, Miss Hughes must have been about 110, My class teacher was a woman aptly named Mrs Dark – a horrible and spiteful woman.

    • Mitchell Wells says:

      I started at Hazelwood school infants in 1965 and I remember the head Mrs Hughes in my first year. The following year came a new head Mrs Cannon in 1968 I went up into the juniors and the head there was Mrs Gibbs . She was young and trendy…in fact I saw her once in the old HMV shop in Wood Green buying a Yes album !

  42. Victoria says:

    Michelle I started Hazelwood in January 1964. I also remember Miss Bellfountain (Spelling) she was head of the Junior before Miss Gibbs. I recall Miss Gibbs as having a scary face – she had pictures of the Beatles up in the corridors and wore rather wayout clothes. Recall Mrs Potts and Mrs Langford and Miss Buchanon (whom I disliked – nasty old bat)

  43. Jacquie says:

    Keith Headley, did you live on N.C.R? If I remember correctly you used to play the piano

  44. Peter says:

    My grandparents moved to Palmers Green in 1910. The lived AT 56, Lightcliffe Road and granddad worked at a city bank. He took the train each morning from Palmers Green station. In 1914 he was commissioned into the Middlesex Regiment as a 2nd Lieutenant and was killed on 1st July 1916 at the Somme. My grandmother moved to Halifax in 1919 and remarried.

  45. Stephen woodward says:

    I used to have a paper round in the paper shop top of hedge lane and green lanes in 1963 I got fifteen Bob a week Mr pogson was the proprietor does any body remember him. I also attended Hazelwood school and remember Mrs bellefontaine I am now 66 years old.

    • singapore 45@yahoo.com says:

      Stephen Woodward – I recall Miss Bellefontaine – I’m exactly ten years younger that you and started at Hazelwood in 1963. She retired when I was there and replaced my Mrs Gibbs – trendy and Beatles fan. Where do you live now?

    • Raymond Spencer Rann says:

      Hello Stephen..thanks for your promptin memorries…just south of your late employer street-wise in them days on the corner of ‘edge Lane was ‘alf a shop where I ‘ad to take ma’s dry cleanins, come snow or shine…annyway Dad ‘ad to ‘ave ‘is dickies starched weekly ‘,cos he was appearin’ (come snow or shine) on Friday nights at the Manor ‘ouse Turnpike Lane or Tott’nam Muni…playin sax(s) clarinet, piano, accordian, dubble base etc for the fashionable dancers in them days. Annyway, do you ‘ave a clue as to whether the proprietor ,Mr. Pogson was related to THE Mr. E. O. Pogson. us failed musicians worship for evermore….no rush… puttin the latest grandaughter Reenie to bed…..’ope she gets on the bandstand soon she’s got the lungs for it and we may need ‘er thirty shillin’s a week to pay ‘orf the mortgage….Annyway (am I keepin you up?) I ‘ad no spare cash for new comics in them days…did you ever deliver the Eagle…I’m payin £8.00 a copy for the good ones now…..

  46. Keith Headley says:

    That’s right Jaqui.

  47. David says:

    Sylvia , there was a WW2 bombsite at the corner of Sidney Ave/Green Lanes near Bowes Rd it was used in the 50/60/70’s as a car yard called Kieth Cars, no longer live in PG so not sure what stands there today.

    • It was never built on, apart from a temporary building. It is now a tyre suppliers and fitters. The buildings opposite however, which was the bombed out Princes Dance Hall, were rebuilt in a totally different style. All will be revealed on Google Street View.

    • Sylvia Gambin says:

      Hi David, yes, I remember Keith’s Cars being there for many years &, as Richard S says, it is now a tyre dealer and I remember Pitman’s just opp. But I was answering Jenny H’s comment about the site at the top of Hedge Lane which was a car dealership etc & is now a very good Turkish Deli, which she thought had been a bomb site. I’ve lived here all my life (born ’45) but don’t remember that or Keith’s being a bomb site. Maybe it was rebuilt very quickly or my memory’s going!
      Sylvia

      • David says:

        Hi Sylvia, in the P.Green archives somewhere there is a report that on the night of March 15th 1941 the Princes Dance Hall (corner of Princes Ave) was packed with young couples. A bus going north, was just slowing down to the bus stop opposite when three bombs fell in close proximity. The Dance Hall suffered badly but most of the fatalities were caused by the wrecking of the shop premises opposite on both corners with Sidney Avenue.
        It was a black moment for Palmers Green as the bodies of the dead & injured were laid out on the pavement. The corner premises were never re-built on and the empty space was then used as an open car forecourt called Kieth’s Cars. Unfortunately I have no knowledge of the Hedge Lane premises,hope this is helpful. David.

        • Sylvia Gambin says:

          Thanks David, my son has just shown me some pictures of that dreadful scene at Sidney Ave but I think I must be losing the plot because I really don’t remember it being a bomb site after the war. Most of the sites stayed flattened for many years afterwards some right up to the 60’s. In fact on A10 between Lister Gardens and Ostliffe Rd, there is still a gap in the terrace where 2 houses were hit during the war.
          I have a friend who is bit older than me who has lived up near Hedge Lane all her life and she might be able to enlighten us about that mystery when I can contact her.
          Sylvia

  48. Sylvia Gambin says:

    When I read Jenny H & Martin’s comments about Doctors, it reminded me of the first one I had. I wonder if anyone remembers Dr Baxter who had a surgery in Hazelwood Lane at the junction with New River Crescent where the maisonettes are now? The surgery was in a big detached house with a lovely garden round it & you walked through a long pergola covered in flowers to get to the house. He was very stern and terrified me! When he retired (1956′ ish), I was 11 and my family were transferred onto Dr Stewart’s list. I think that surgery was based in the houses that Martin mentioned (10/8/14) for a short while and then to a tiny building, like a garage, at the top of Windsor Rd with a bigger branch in Winchmore Hill, nr Green Dragon Lane. In the last few years Windsor Rd closed and we had to go to W Hill. Dr Stewart was a wonderful Dr who never seem to rush you, yet never seemed to run late with his apt & made you feel really at ease. He has also now retired and the surgery has now moved nearer to the roundabout at W.Hill next to the petrol station.

    I suppose the range of shops in every High St has changed so much these days because almost everyone has a car, fridges and freezers and generally shop only once or twice a week, whereas when I was young, people shopped every day and had to walk to the shops for fresh produce. Take butchers, for instance, within 10-15 min walk of me (Chequers Way, where Metal Box Co was), there were 5/6 butchers that I remember walking to with my Mum. One in Tottenhall Rd, Drakes at The Cambridge roundabout & at the Triangle, another at Empire Parade and Dewhurst in Green Lanes opp Tottenhall Rd.

    The other memory was of the café Doms (Dave Todd 1/7/14) where they sold really delicious ice cream too!

    Life is very different now and this great website has brought back lots of lovely memories for me.
    Sylvia Gambin

    • Sylvia. I still hanker for an ice cream like Dom’s – scraped onto a cornet with a spatula not scooped! I manage to find “scraped” ice cream every now and then but nothing like the taste I remember.

      • Sylvia Gambin says:

        Pennie, I can tell you have great taste! People who have only had ‘soft’ ice cream have no idea what they’re missing. The only place I’ve ever found an equivalent to Dom’s, is in the home of ice cream, Italy and that’s a long way to go for a cornet!!!
        Happy searching, Sylvia Gambin

        • Sad as I am, I have just had a look on Google maps and as of August 2014, there was still a Dom’s offering Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner – no mention of ice cream though!

  49. David says:

    Sylvia & Pennie have jogged my memory of Dom’s cafe in Palmers Green.
    My memory goes back to 1956, I would have been 8 years old and my Dad used to take myself & my younger brother to Dom’s most Saturday’s during the summer holidays for a midday lunch ‘treat’, He would put us on one of the 5 bar stools which were positioned at the rear of the cafe on the right hand side, we would pick up the menu because it looked grown up! ….and ALWAYS ordered egg, sausage & chips. Our Dad would pay the 2/6d, and pick us up 45 minutes later as he worked nearby. After the last chip was scoffed the owner would place in front of us a huge strawberry milkshake made with the soft ice cream they were known for, this shake was always served in a heavy fancy thick glass with a straw to slurp up the last visible clinging bubbles.
    The ice cream was served from a sliding glass hatch facing the street, so you didn’t have to go inside if an ice cream was all you wanted, in the summer the servery was always open otherwise a light tap on the glass and brother or sister would serve you with beautiful soft ice cream in a cone and a smile all for threepence.
    The owners were brother and sister Dominic & Anna both born in Italy who arrived in England after the second world war,they were very hard working & organised, so much so they only lived 200 yards opposite in Tottenhall Rd. They ran the cafe on their own with no other help.
    Dom drove a maroon Renaualt Dauphine, which I remember being the first foreign car I saw in Palmers Green. I believe some time in the 80’s Dom’s was sold but the new owner had the good foresite to retain the classic “Dom’s signage, but not the good foresite to retain the ice cream servery!. I haven’t been back for many years but believe the Dom’s cafe is still there.
    ps. My brother and I also used to ‘park’ our ‘guy’ on the day’s leading up to Guy Fawkes night outside Dom’s (with his permission) as it was always busy and situated between two bus stops.
    Penny for the Guy!!….thank you for jogging my memory.

    • Sylvia Gambin says:

      Fantastic David, that’s amazing. You even remember the prices! I’m impressed. Can you imagine leaving two young children in a café now, you would probably get a visit from Social Services.
      I wasn’t as lucky as you & never actually ate at Dom’s though, but if I was very good my treat was the ice cream and I still have a sweet tooth to this day. But you are right about the window where you got served. I really love this website for bringing back all those memories stored in the depths of our brains. It’s great.
      Sylvia

  50. David – they are wonderful memories aren’t they? I lived in Tottenhall Road until 1955 when we moved to Winchmore Hill but I remember the home made guys outside the shops on Green Lanes. Dom’s and the baker opposite were always good pitches!

  51. Raymond Spencer Rann says:

    Dear David and Pennie, must interject…no rush…annyway, ‘avin a larf in cornywall now and rememberin’ Palmers Green an’ Winchmore ‘ill….!955, Concriptd to the Rifle Brigade…..married Patricia (Winchmore ‘ill 1957) where was Doms in the ‘igh street?. As to guy fawkes night…I was shot n the leg by a lout with an airrifle November, Beech Avenue 1948..no rush. no NHS .no grudgis but years go on this tripe celebration with fireworks still upsets loads o’ animals for a month (even pets let alone them foxis ‘an badgers) annually…..Annyway ice cream an’ jellys under a glass case (repro) at the Ritz cinema 1943 in Leyton (before the doodle bugs) but nil else at the Odeon Southgate (2/9 for the best seats and icis (extra) in the interval (with my wife 1959). Patricia loved the pictures…but for me the sing along organ player at Capitol Winchmor ‘ill.. why did we did disagree occasion like….ladies may comment, no rush

  52. Jenny Hirshberg says:

    List of teachers at Hazelwood school 1960s, Miss Hughes, Mrs Jones, Mrs Lee, Mrs Dark. Miss Gibbs. Mrs Gibbs, Mr Roper, Mrs Langford(Nee Anstey) Mrs Potts, Mrs Buchannon, Mr Hollingsworth, Mr Streatham,Mrs Chapman, Mrs Rupert, Also the caretaker who was aptly named Mr Moody,

  53. Raymond Spencer Rann says:

    Just a qwik qweery… (my daughter is out this evenin an I’m baby sittin…so privit time on the computer, eh?) (“When I was a boy” is banned in daylight hours this family). Was Mrs Dark the wife of Mr. Dark..my teecher at Winchmore ‘ill and Southgate County Grammer, Fox Lane, do you remember? (‘appy Famiily memories agin, eh? an dreemin on ..do you remember Lou Ansell and ‘is Dance Band founded I believe at Hazlewood Lane Skool and practicin evenins before puttin on dances for the skool and other worthy causes. Some of the musicians achieved International fame (not me…I was on drums) . I still ‘as the familly piano bungin up my front room, ‘opin the latist sprog will unravvell its potential. If not…at last space for my clockwerk trainset (O guageTrix or Bing…(not Hornby? you may ask) too fashionable and hexpensive now thanks to ebay….

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